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A "Social Transaction" - Notes from my Meeting with David Fricke of Rolling Stone
Last week in NYC, I had the opportunity to meet with David Fricke, Senior Editor of Rolling Stone. The introduction was made via our very own Bill Bentley (thanks Bill!). David has been in the business for a "long time" as he put it, but still manages to catch live shows and enjoy the life of a rock journalist. It was truly an honor to meet him as David is a legend in the industry having done huge stories on Nirvana, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Phish, Metallica, and Pink Floyd to name a few. We met at the Wenner Media HQ on Sixth Avenue - just walking around the offices was a trip... walking down the hallway seeing the covers of countless issues of our heroes of yesteryear was incredible.
We sat down in his office which was littered with countless CDs, random music paraphernalia, and yes, even cassette tapes - OLD SCHOOL. It was a lot of fun just being able to talk about music, our favorite bands, and of course, the dilapidated state of the industry today. David is a genuine music fan and cares deeply about the artists that live and die by their art. We spent a lot of time talking about current trends and how most artists have never made money selling music. I made that point that in the old days, artists went on tour to promote sales of the album. Today, many artists simply give away their music in order to promote ticket and merch sales - because that's where they make most of their money.
I could tell that my last statement irked him as he had a troubled look on his face. "Oh God," I thought, "Now I really pissed him off. Shit!" I think my face turned crimson at this point as I felt like my head was going to pop. I think he found this humorous as he chuckled and quickly commented that we shouldn't be too quick to discount that artists SHOULD still be compensated for the music that they create. He felt that fans should have an OBLIGATION to compensate artists for their work and creativity. David went on to say, "Even bands like Metallica once slept on floors and toured in shitty vans. They paid their dues over the course of years to bring great music to us. Buying music is a social transaction." He went on to say that even in the digital age when sharing/stealing music is so easy, we should still remember the travails of the artist and support them - not just via a monetary transaction, but one that involves giving back to an artist that has created memories and emotions that we will remember for the rest of our lives. Perhaps a "social transaction" could imply that the exchange transcends a sale of a product, but is more an act (perhaps a custom or ritual) that involves honoring an artist for their work.
Of course, at this point, the hairs were sticking up on my arms. Even though, many artists don't make money selling music, it's not an excuse on our part as consumers, to throw up our hands and think, "Well, the artist isn't going to make any money on this anyway..." (Ring a bell?)
David then went on to talk about how the internet should never be a replacement for human interaction. We joked about how, on a Friday night, kids once hung out in the parking lot at 7-11 hoping some guy would buy them beers (OK, that's what I did), but nowadays they hang out on the myriad of social networks out there. It seems David comes from a "different generation," as he put it, as he doesn't even own a cell phone. He went on to say that there's nothing that could ever replace the feeling of being at a live show - the sounds, smells, the electricity in the air... He mentioned, "I saw the Police play at MSG a little while ago and there was this lady typing away on her Blackberry. I thought what could be more important in the world than what's happening on stage right in front of you? Unbelievable!" We then sidetracked on how amazing Stewart Copeland's incredible drumming for about 5 minutes and then returned to the industry discussion.
He summed up our discussion around a "social transaction" of having implications of a two-way interaction. He said that while he doesn't quite "get" the draw of social networks, it has allowed for improved ease of communication. He felt that artists also have an obligation to reach back out to their fans to "complete the transaction." ANY interaction will create a lasting impression on a fan for life.
While I only met with David for an hour or so, my meeting him will certainly create a lasting impression on me. I hope to meet him again soon...
We sat down in his office which was littered with countless CDs, random music paraphernalia, and yes, even cassette tapes - OLD SCHOOL. It was a lot of fun just being able to talk about music, our favorite bands, and of course, the dilapidated state of the industry today. David is a genuine music fan and cares deeply about the artists that live and die by their art. We spent a lot of time talking about current trends and how most artists have never made money selling music. I made that point that in the old days, artists went on tour to promote sales of the album. Today, many artists simply give away their music in order to promote ticket and merch sales - because that's where they make most of their money.
I could tell that my last statement irked him as he had a troubled look on his face. "Oh God," I thought, "Now I really pissed him off. Shit!" I think my face turned crimson at this point as I felt like my head was going to pop. I think he found this humorous as he chuckled and quickly commented that we shouldn't be too quick to discount that artists SHOULD still be compensated for the music that they create. He felt that fans should have an OBLIGATION to compensate artists for their work and creativity. David went on to say, "Even bands like Metallica once slept on floors and toured in shitty vans. They paid their dues over the course of years to bring great music to us. Buying music is a social transaction." He went on to say that even in the digital age when sharing/stealing music is so easy, we should still remember the travails of the artist and support them - not just via a monetary transaction, but one that involves giving back to an artist that has created memories and emotions that we will remember for the rest of our lives. Perhaps a "social transaction" could imply that the exchange transcends a sale of a product, but is more an act (perhaps a custom or ritual) that involves honoring an artist for their work.
Of course, at this point, the hairs were sticking up on my arms. Even though, many artists don't make money selling music, it's not an excuse on our part as consumers, to throw up our hands and think, "Well, the artist isn't going to make any money on this anyway..." (Ring a bell?)
David then went on to talk about how the internet should never be a replacement for human interaction. We joked about how, on a Friday night, kids once hung out in the parking lot at 7-11 hoping some guy would buy them beers (OK, that's what I did), but nowadays they hang out on the myriad of social networks out there. It seems David comes from a "different generation," as he put it, as he doesn't even own a cell phone. He went on to say that there's nothing that could ever replace the feeling of being at a live show - the sounds, smells, the electricity in the air... He mentioned, "I saw the Police play at MSG a little while ago and there was this lady typing away on her Blackberry. I thought what could be more important in the world than what's happening on stage right in front of you? Unbelievable!" We then sidetracked on how amazing Stewart Copeland's incredible drumming for about 5 minutes and then returned to the industry discussion.
He summed up our discussion around a "social transaction" of having implications of a two-way interaction. He said that while he doesn't quite "get" the draw of social networks, it has allowed for improved ease of communication. He felt that artists also have an obligation to reach back out to their fans to "complete the transaction." ANY interaction will create a lasting impression on a fan for life.
While I only met with David for an hour or so, my meeting him will certainly create a lasting impression on me. I hope to meet him again soon...
Comments
It's 1:00 in the morning and I can't focus anymore. Just want some Fuzz sounds to lull me to sleep so I can get back to you on this with a fresh mind.
More seriously, that's very cool. Like you, I'm in that generation between his and the kids... and I had a similar experience at the Police concert in Oakland, watching some young(ish) girls who would look bored in their sets, texting with their cell phones... that is, until they'd play one of the bigger hits, and they'd jump up exitedly and bounce around annoyingly.
It's a sad fact, but the best solution doesn't always win. Microsoft Windows? Myspace? This will be a case where the masses decide the winning business model. The smart band is the one that doesn't hedge their bets and comes from as many angles as possible. Ultimately, it's the music that matters... but making the best music in the world won't matter (commercially at least) if nobody knows about it.
I agree with David, "there's nothing that could ever replace the feeling of being at a live show - the sounds, smells, the electricity in the air..."
As you would say, J, "Amen." ;)
There's nothing like it. I savor those moments--I live for those moments.
And of course, if you're talking about The Police, it's understandable you got sidetracked discussing how amazing Stewart Copeland is. I LOVE listening to the crack of his snare (extra special because of his traditional grip) and his cymbal work, especially hi-hat and splash. There's so much there... my gosh. I listened to "Murder By Numbers" not too long ago during my run at Ocean Beach. I am still blown away by his talent. I remember pushing in my ear buds closer to my ear, embedding it as tightly as I could to hear every note he played. Incredible. Inspiring.
Nice meeting, J. Lasting impression, indeed. I hope you guys DO meet again.
I'll skip the obvious Cliff Burton reference in response to David's quip that even Metallica toured in shitty vans...
All in all, Jeff, what an amazing opportunity to meet with David and to rap about the state of the music industry, etc. I'm sure you got the straight dope from him, as he's been around long enough to be an influential tastemaker who doesn't need to toe any particular party line or regurgitate some industry bullshit.
And good for you for telling it like you saw it. Bands, like all creative artists, should be compensated for their work. I, too, have witnessed the growing trend of free CDs/EPs at shows. I view that practice in the same vein as with my photography -- you give away what you need to in order to set yourself up for greater opportunities and successes. The trick is to stop before you devalue your own work.
Fricke's insight is blindingly simple: the traditional buy/sell relationship between artist and fan as a one-time market transaction is DEAD, but the artist/fan relationship itself is very much ALIVE.
How to monetize a social relationship as opposed to a singular commercial one is then just a matter of elegant execution that can take a myriad of forms, depending on how industrious and clever Jenny and Johnny are.
Once you move outside of the single buy/sell market [i.e, price-driven and price-led supply/demand] paradigm to a broader artist/fan relationship in a hybrid digital/personal context, the world of possibilities open up.
What you and Fricke were talking about as a "social transaction" [Friske's insight] that transcends a sale of a product but is more akin to the ritual exchange of honor given for honor received [your combined insight that made the hair on your arms stand up] may well be the sharp edge of another razor that cuts the Gordian knot that has tied up the growth of the music industry for decades.
Yes! All of us participating in the ongoing Fuzz experiment will be honored to build a new economic foundation between artist and fan based on honor given for honor received.